Circuitbenders Forum
Circuitbenders Forum => Circuitbending discussion => Synths & Samplers => Topic started by: jamiewoody on December 28, 2009, 10:02:25 PM
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i was recently GIVEN one of these by my niece who "outgrew" it. (she is 15, i am 41!). ;-)
one thing i took note of right away, was when the main volume is all the way up and the accompniment volume is down, you get this sweet distorted sound out of the auto-chord!!!
so far, this is what i am dreaming up for this keyboard: pitch control pot, speaker out...
did anyone ever make a schematic for bends for this baby?!
i'll have fun probing for bends!
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i started bending this baby tonight!
i added two 8 point patchbays. check out this scene: half of the bends i discovered were an echo chamber! i can play notes and they repeat. depending on how i have the patch, i can keep adding notes to the loop!
i found one or 2 distortion tones, but, in the other 8 point patch bay, i discovered envelopes! kinda cool. since this was "there", i wonder why it wwas not included like on the factory sk1?
i am not finished yet. i want to get a pitch control out of this, and maybe another "twister". :)
also, the power on/off switch is acting kind of weird. i have to figure that one out. casio switches pretty much suck anyway.
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so, does anybody know anything about these keyboards? it looks like there are 4 drum pad inputs. do they have to be "casio", or can they be a homemade trigger?
this thing is amazing! i can set sound loops by using the patchbay!!! i think i feel an ambient music project coming on! ;D
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could you post a video or some recordings, sounds pretty sick!
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good point, i really need to do this. unfortunately, i have dial up at the moment, which pretty much sux!
i think i will be making a circuit bending website for my projects soon.
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there didn't seem to be as much in the way of glitchtones.
i was able to change the envellope with the patchbay. and another with the echo-loop thing. i think i will call this the "automator".
i wish i knew more about these. any other groovy things i can do to this thing? a pitch knob would at least be cool.
the plan is to build a case for it and have the controls on a panel in the back for easy bending.
there are drum inputs on it too. lots of reserch to do.
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I didn't know dial-up still existed ;) I hope you don't pay by the minute as well! my dad used to make me give him my pocket money in exchange for internet time :D
good job anyway
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i'm working on making a circuit bent website for my projects. it will become more comprehensive as time passes.
i've does 4 keyboards thus far. this mt-205 is a work in progress. i want to at least get a pitch control out of this badboy. i thought of wiring a pot to the tuning trimmer, but for some reason, it is a *!&*~ trying to get the board out of this! and i do not want to force anything.
any tips on a pitch control for this? the closest thing i have come up with is a sub-octave control, which seems to slow the clock down. (i say this, because there is a slight delay when key is pressed). simply turning this know gives this really glitchy effect!
(forgive me if i get my definitions wrong, as i am making discoveries, some i have not seen documented, though i am sure i am not the first).
one patchbay seems to open different envelopes. i can sustain, dampen, distort, etc. this makes me wonder if they had plans for this keyboard which never saw the light of day?!! these are features in the sk1!!!!
the other bay loops what you just played!
i ran out of screws, so i ducktaped the patchbays! LOL! i thought of covering the whole thing in ducktape, for that space age look! ;-)
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Hi Jamie
I've got one of these keyboards - so far I've only gotten a few distortions and a sweet tuneable feedback pot. There are also some weird pulsing glitches on the main ICs some of which can be controlled with pots. More stuff on my MT220 (similar chip?) - Lo-pass filter control and overtones. Breakbeatnazi found a bunch of other mods on the MT205 though check out this thread:
http://www.circuitbenders.co.uk/forum/index.php/topic,827.0.html (http://www.circuitbenders.co.uk/forum/index.php/topic,827.0.html)
he definitely mentioned sorting out pitch control which I too am interested in - I think it's just what some of the folks round here would called a "Simple" case of replacing the clock crystal with a controllable oscillator pulse made from a 555 IC, a couple of Capacitors, a resistor and a pot. I'm very much a clumsy novice at this bending lark so I haven't yet plucked up the courage. I have a bunch off 555s sitting in a drawer waiting for me to get on with it when I have some time. I'm not up to speed on using capacitors yet so I might try an APC or something first just to get a feel for it before I go ahead an get rid of the precious crystal on my casio!
It sounds like you've found loads more than me though so any chance of some pointers on the dampening/ sustain and echo chamber stuff?
I once managed to make my MT220 (which has exacly the same sounds so probably a very similar synth chip) crash in such a way that the release envelope was permanently turned off. Turned the piano sound into this gorgeous floaty chord pad that just kept on decaying forever.... I'd love to work out how to get it back but I lost it next time I turned the power off ???
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so, does anybody know anything about these keyboards? it looks like there are 4 drum pad inputs. do they have to be "casio", or can they be a homemade trigger?
this thing is amazing! i can set sound loops by using the patchbay!!! i think i feel an ambient music project coming on! ;D
I've got the drum pads - they are like drumsticks with the rubbery "Pad" at the tip of the stick - when you hit them off a surface (or even just wang them hard through the air) they trigger the drums. reasonably sensitive, you can do drum rolls with them.
I've been looking for an alternative way to trigger them, as the trigger inputs are on 3.5mm I wondered if audio signals would work... tried playing noise down each channel but so far no luck. :( I might try recording the output from the drumsticks and see if that will trigger the drums when played back from an external source. If it works I'll post the sound files, it shouldn't be too hard to sequence your own beats if you have a four track or sonething!
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i have heard there are lots of cool things to do with the drum features on this one. i'm not a very good drummer though. ;-)
i like how i can make this loop notes by using one of the patchbays.
and i still have not ruled out taking this baby apart again. i think there HAS to be more in the way of cool glitchiness!
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i think i am going to have to take this thing apart again and poke around. i am finding, with these old casios, everytime i think i am done, and curiosity gets the better of me, i end up finding more and more things to do!
plus, i took the speakers out of this one, so there is lots of room for controls, pots, switches, etc!
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So Jamie any chance you could share any pics or schematics etc? I'm very interested in the dampening/ sustain and echo chamber sounds that you mentioned!
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yeah,you are correct, sir. i need to take pics of stuff. i need a better digital camera, the one i have is built in my camcorder, and is only 1.3 mp...pretty lame.
i would actually have to open this thing back up and look at what i wired to find the bends. i was pretty amazed at the bends i found though!
i think soon i will open it back up anyway. i am always amazed at how many bends casios have and how i always find cool things when i open them the 2nd time!
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Cool :) I'm going to try out the audio triggers for the drums tonight I'll let you know how it goes...
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yeah it didn't go so well. I guess that's just not how the trigger works. When I recorded the output of the drumstick I got level but playing back this recorded sound down a 3.5 mm into the trigger inputs did not trigger the drum sounds. Oh well.
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Hey Jamie
Just wanted to say thanks - I opened my MT205 up last night and I found the dampening and sustain bends you mentioned! - points on the top right chip (printed side up, keys towards you) near the ribbon cable and the bottom chip of the three long chips in the middle. I got my dreamy infinite sustain back! And also a long sustain that stops when you let go of the key. These are both super useful to me and I probably wouldn't have gone looking again if you hadn't posted what you found so cheers!
I also found a set of your "repeating notes" bends at different speeds off the same chips... kind of cool, might stick a couple of switches in for these.
;D ;D ;D
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take your pick...switches are cool. i went with a patch bay, there seem to be a lot of possibilities with that.
this board, after bending it, seemed "overengineered". i mean, it seemed like some of the features on the sk1, dampening, etc, were originally meant to be on this, then some foreman came along and said, "dont put those in there, casio reached a corporate decision!". the worker said, "but....but, it's such a good idea!". then the foreman fired him for dissagreeing with him. lol!
seriously, i am flattered that i have inspired someone. it seems like the blind leading the not so blind though! lol!
if you find anything else cool in this, let me know. i have a feeling there are lots of cool bends i have yet to discover in this goldmine!
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oh, also, i knocked the speakers out, cut the grill and placed the rca jacks on each side. one for the echo chamber and one for the envelopes.
i am finding those casio 4" speakers are awesome sounding, and great for other projects, testing things, etc!
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well, i discovered a few more bends on this little goldmine tonight!!!
in the spirit of the saturday night live skit...christopher walken in the studio as producer with blue oyster cult recoding don't fear the reaper....
i had my casio mt-205 apart this evening, and i discovered when probing two points, a very dissonant sound. almost like banging on piano keys, creating an atonal chord.
so, i soldered a wire and experimented. for some reason this only worked when contact between the two points were made, not when the keys were pressed.
i started to visualize some sort of drum pad, or a morse code key or some relay to press and make the sound. i looked around and had nothing.
there is this tiny brass cowbell, which i had on my workbench, for comic relief. if things were not going as plan, i could look at it and say, "i need more cowbell!".
well, i found some heavy copper wire (almost electrician grade), tinned the ends, soldered to the point and connected the cowbell. so, now when you touch the wire to the cowbell, you hear that loud, atonal sound...it reminds me of the blueman group's "piano smasher" instrument (a baby grand piano, top removed, placed vertical, played by smashing a huge hammer to the wires!).
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;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D
I found a few of those "mash the keys" sounds triggered by the bend not the keys to whilst I was probing... sounds like the "Accomp" sound... a few on the MT220 triggered random streams of drum sounds along with this sound. One of them sounded great for two secs but also did one of those scary "lights are on but no-one's home" type crashes so I've steered well clear...
I didn't feel the need to use them myself but fair play to you for rigging the cowbell trigger! - maybe you could rig the wire that you touch the cowbell with to a beater/ drumstick with a metal tip, then it would look like the cowbell actually made that sound when you hit it :D
Yeah Blue man group... I love those crazy blue chaps! those piano smashers are a truly awesome example of "acoustic bending" - no circuits involved but still very creative. Not exactly one many people can try to build at home (unless you happen to have four spare pianos just lying around the house) but still pretty inspirational!
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i need a little drumstick or hammer keychain charm, one that is metal to do it. i can just touch the wire to the cowbell and it will work too, but the visual element is half of the novelty! ;-)
i have mixed feelings about blueman group. they are doing some cool things, making instuments, etc. but, they are not the first to do some of the things they seem to be taking credit for. a lot of the credit should go to the german industrial band EINSTURZENDE NEUBATEN!
neubaten make instuments from pcv, scrap metal, air compressors, saws, jack hammers...this was the original definition of INDUSTRIAL music!
i still have not covered some things, like body contacts, photo cells, etc in circuit bending yet. i would like to though. reed gazala has been kind in sharing that stuff with the world!
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No doubting BMG's debt to EN... personally I'd much rather listen to/ watch BMG. ::) I just can't stand EN's singer. Their instrumental stuff is top though.
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i have to be in the proper mindset to listen to any style of music, and i listen to a lot of music. (this should be a thread). i mostly like the experiental nature of progressive (or 'prog') rock bands like king crimson, which covers a large range!
also, i like EN, clang quartet, early king's x, 70s fusion like weather report, return to forever, etc. and the list goes on.
i only hate most music in the mainstream. if it is on the radio, chances are i do not like it, though there are exceptions.
originally, i got into neubaten out of curiosity. there were some electronica bands i had listened to for years. (electronica should not even be considered a genre, as it covers industrial as we know it today, ambient, dub, trip-hop, techno...). so, i wanted to hear this band who supposedly started the whole industrial genre. of course, EN sound NOTHING like ministry, nin, skinny puppy, circle of dust, etc.
i must say, after hearing EN, my music and songwriting have changed and progressed into a more experimental nature.
also, i think this is a reason for me getting into circuit bending too. i love experimental music, now i am creating experimental instruments to perform it!
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Cool man. I'd definitely list BMG in my influences so by extension I guess Neubaten are in there as well!
Well, off on a tangent but seeing as we got onto the subject naturally ;)... here's a shameless plug for my band which you might be interested in:- instrumental math/ post/ noise rock (which of course used to be called prog but what does anyone know about genres!) with more and more experimental leanings as time goes on...
http://profile.myspace.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=user.viewprofile&friendid=329361845 (http://profile.myspace.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=user.viewprofile&friendid=329361845)
This is the reason I'm here really, to make new instruments to blow peoples minds with! So far I've gigged with the MT-205 once and practiced a fair few times and found it moderately reliable, put it this way I'm glad I've got the MT-220 in case anything goes wrong!
Currently we're using one other experimental noise maker in our live setup - the "drone machine" which is really a tascam 4-track running an endless cassette with different pitched synth drones on each track. It makes a surprisingly flexible, dynamic and responsive instrument, especially with a multiFX in the FXloop. Again not a circuit bent intstrument but a "repurposed" device now turned into an instrument!
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schweeet! do you have a hard time finding cassettes? i was looking for some last summer and walmart didn't even have any!
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so, for the record, could i be credited for the famous "cowbell mod"?! ::) ;D
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Yeah if I end up doing anything like that on mine you'll get a full credit plus a percentage of the gross ;)
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nah, i dont want money, just some sort of cult status! 8)
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we'll call you the cow bell guy
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schweeet! do you have a hard time finding cassettes? i was looking for some last summer and walmart didn't even have any!
Actually the endless cassettes were being chucked out from the studio where, at the time, two of us worked. AFAIK they're pretty rare now - lucky we've got four! we plan to put different drones/ noises on each cassette to give us more flexibility.
I would'nt have thought it would be too hard to find some 90/ 120 min cassettes on ebay or somewhere though and just use them instead - bit boring taking the time to stripe the whole cassette with drone tones but still pretty easy! One of the cool things about it is manual mechanical pitch control via the tape speed... and the 4track we're using even has a double/ half speed switch which alters the pitch by a whole octave...
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hmmm...if you want one continuous drone tone, have you considered talking the cassette apart and looping the tape inside?
a bit tedious, but it might deem worth it.
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Not a bad idea...
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I used to do this with 1/4" tape, back when I was a spotty schoolie and couldn't afford a sampler ;-)
It's much easier on 1/4" 7.5"/s tape because the tape is less fiddly and the individual beats are much longer - at 120bpm one bar of 4/4 is 15", so one beat is 3.25" - and you can cut very very accurate loops.
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true, 1/4" tape is easier.
also, remember, when you cut and splice the tape, cut the tape at an even angle, 45º. that will make for smooth sound transition at the end of the loop.
if you aren't hell bent on tape (i understand if you are), maybe one of those small digital recorders used for dictation might could be bent? they sell them in the electronics department of walmart for around $40 i think.
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Just messing around trying to see if I can post these pics apols if they're too big or not there or whatever:-
(http://c1.ac-images.myspacecdn.com/images02/125/l_50299c0c08fc4e01acb09975acb15d98.jpg)
(http://c1.ac-images.myspacecdn.com/images02/151/l_36896bb74f9d4b13bf3d5c8435883244.jpg)
They are of the bends that I've put in on my MT-205 hope they are of use if someone out there finds another one of these little beauties.
(EDIT) ok so it looks like it's worked eventually... here are the bends:-
Top right switch is a two-way toggle, one way turns off the release envelope and the other way does the same but with a reverb effect thrown in for good measure. Both also have the added effect of pitching up whatever note you played by one semitone, worth remembering if you're playing with a band!
Top left switch is another two way toggle, this one turns on the repeating note patterns, two different speeds are available. Some interesting and unpredictable effects are possible with these.
Both of those switches also glitch the drum patterns in a pleasing way, used in conjunction with the sliders there are hundreds of pattern combinations available all of which can be switched mid phrase for even more variation.
The red wires lead to a switch, a 470ohm pot and a 1k skeleton trimmer at bottom left. The switch engages the distortion/ oscillating feedback effect, the pot adds distortion and tunes the feedback tone and the trimmer is for tuning the start point of the feedback.
There are two switches above that pot, the blue one is a straight on/off lead distortion. This distortion is nice and brightens all of the sounds up but it's a massive jump in level so I'm not sure how I'm going to use it live...
The Red switch is a little more subtle it seems to remove the lo-pass filter. Still opens up more tonal variation. Doesn't work on all the patches though.
The log pot and trimmer that you see by the output jack may not be staying... I was getting some odd effects playing the keyboard into a practice amp at one point that I thought were to do with the level being too hot out of the speaker output but I now think it's more likely that what I was hearing was something to do with low batteries.
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i'll study these and see try them out. i have to get more components though. i am out of switches and a bunch of things!
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Hey Jamie I think you covered the top switch stuff with your patchbay tbh.
Can't recommend the oscillating feedback mod enough though!
soz about the poor quality of pics btw hope you can see what's going on...
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which one was oscillating feedback? is that the red wires and the potentiometer? also, which value pot did you use?
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Yep, red wires, if you've got a switch to combine it with use a 470ohm pot and a trimmer, otherwise a 1k will do the job but will give you less useful range.
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Golly!
It's the gift that keeps giving!
just hooning around this evening with my MT-205 I've discovered some new sounds accessible using the bends that I've already installed... if you turn the keyboard off, flick one or more of the top red switches, turn the keyboard on and then reset the switches you'll find that you now have a sound not quite like any of the presets...
there are eight possible combinations of these switches (I wouldn't be surprised if there were more available from bends that I haven't installed yet) and of these eight switch settings seven of them gave me useable sounds that play from the keyboard. The other one gives you a big fat drone from the first key pressed that sustains forever and crashes the keyboard so that it won't play anything else or turn off till you take the battery out... this was still kind of useable as it is still affected by the feedback and lead distortion mods!
The sounds don't sound like "Hidden presets" so much as individual constituent parts of the existing presets with different effects/ amp envelopes. For instance one of them is clearly the upper harmonic part of the jazz organ preset, and one (my fave) is clearly the vibraphone sound without the chorus - it's just a fat sounding bass synth sound, score!
this little baby's coming to practice with me tomorrow!
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::)
So you know I said I'd found seven more useable sounds?
They were only the ones that applied to the default preset "Piano"
If you combine switches, turn the keyboard on, select one of the other presets and then turn the switches off you get even more. A few are doubled up and some sound lame but I reckon there's at least 30 more sounds in there if not more.
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it seems most of the usable sounds are in the piano voice, well as far as bent sounds go. same goes for the sk1, though there are some good bent tones in the human voice mode of that.
tell me, does thes mt-205 pre-date the sk1?
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No idea about dates sadly... would be interesting to find out. Are the MT-205 sounds similar to the SK-1?
A bit more exploration has revealed that some of the doubled up sounds cover different ranges of the keyboard.
I disagree about all the useable ones being on the piano voice though - (i suppose it's kind of subjective) I found several raw sounding synths (i.e not much oscillator layering or reverb/ chorus etc), a slightly squelchy synth sound with an ADSR that's different to any of the preset voices and a couple of sounds with quietly sustaining overtones that change every 4 or so key presses, very pleasant indeed. The problem for me is remembering the switch/ preset voice combination that unlocks each one! I might have to sit down and map them out one day...
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for some reason, on my sk1, some voices will crash the keyboard, leading to a reset, while others do so less.
the sk is a great kb though, even unbent! ! the "synth" sound in mono with no effects is a really good lead tone!
if there is a weakness in casio products (other than that "scrub switch", poor engineering!) would be the default settings, which is typical of digital anything. the vibratto is a default, it would seem a dry sound would be. but, i can work around that.
the envelopes i was able to unlock in the mt-205 are standard features in the sk1. i guess this made me wonder if it predates the sk1, but who knows.
as far as remembering which switch goes to what...ditto! i did a patchbay on mine for most sounds, and about 4 switches for some effects.
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so, does anybody know anything about these keyboards? it looks like there are 4 drum pad inputs. do they have to be "casio", or can they be a homemade trigger?
I don't know if this was covered elsewhere, but I thought I'd put in my .02. I just picked one of these up in Philly for under four dollars, and have been poking at the board all evening.
The drum jacks each accept a stereo minijack, which usually has three leads (Left audio, Right audio, Common). All you have to do to trigger the drum sound is to cross the Left with Common or Right with Common. The easiest way to do this would be to wire each minijack to two momentary-contact switches, for 8 in all. You can install these switches right in the case (easy if you remove the right-hand speaker) or build an external board with 8 pushbutton switches.
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if you scored one of these under $4, you truly scored!!! my niece gave me hers. i can't wait until she comes in april so i can show her the cowbell! lol!
everytime i open this thing up, there is more to discover. like i said, i think it was overengineered, and there are a lot of features which were decided later not to be included! like the envelopes, etc.
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i'm going to take mine apart again soon. i may try the oscillator mod on it like i did the sk1...on the pitch, i can get a sub-octave, but no real variance for some reason. i may try it as a body contact as well and see what happens.
i took this out and played around with it last night. one of the bends i discovered months ago is a LOOPER! when i have this patched, i can play one note, it will repeat. then play another note and it will repeat and i can just layer tones!
this keyboard has some pretty fat tones (factory) and lots of possibilities. there do not seem to be a lot of places to just stick potentiometers, like on other casios. but, it is it's own animal. next time i get inside this baby, i'll shoot some pics!
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i opened this up again today. i honestly think they overengineered this keyborard. i mean, there are so many thing, envelopes, sustain, dampen, tremolo, distortions, etc which seem to have been meant to be there, but are hidden easter eggs!
so, today i discovered 2 tremolos. i tried to make a pitch pot, but had no luck, i tried 500k, 100k and 1k,(these were the pots i had in stock) and i could not get enough variance. hmmm....and advice?
i breadboarded a vco, and found a couple of sweet spots for oscillation. i am going to take my time on this mod. i have a feeling i could be doing so much more than i am!
i'll take pics of the circuit board. i need to make a bending guide for this one. i have some good bends, and i'd love to share them.
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so, does anybody know anything about these keyboards? it looks like there are 4 drum pad inputs. do they have to be "casio", or can they be a homemade trigger?
this thing is amazing! i can set sound loops by using the patchbay!!! i think i feel an ambient music project coming on! ;D
I've got the drum pads - they are like drumsticks with the rubbery "Pad" at the tip of the stick - when you hit them off a surface (or even just wang them hard through the air) they trigger the drums. reasonably sensitive, you can do drum rolls with them.
I've been looking for an alternative way to trigger them, as the trigger inputs are on 3.5mm I wondered if audio signals would work... tried playing noise down each channel but so far no luck. :( I might try recording the output from the drumsticks and see if that will trigger the drums when played back from an external source. If it works I'll post the sound files, it shouldn't be too hard to sequence your own beats if you have a four track or sonething!
I picked up three of the SS-1 drumsticks the other day but haven't played with them much beyond testing to make sure they work.
I think any kind of momentary switch would work as a trigger for the Super Drums keyboards. That's all the DP-1 drum pads are.
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On the subject of the MT-205 drums - can't remember if I mentioned this before but if you put in switches for the sustain envelope and looping mods that jamie mentioned you'll find that they affect the drum patterns too, which, combined with the sliders makes for jamming with the preset drum patterns quite interesting.
If you repeatedly flick the switches on and off and move several sliders you can eventually make it crash and start spewing superfast random streams of drum noise. For an audio example of the sort of thing you can get up to with these switches installed check out the track "Casio MT-205" here:-
http://www.myspace.com/music/9081449/songs/63736831 (http://www.myspace.com/music/9081449/songs/63736831)
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i did a sort of patch bay for the "envelopes". i hooked them all up to rca jacks, and one rca plug, hardwired connects to the envelope bends. there are some good ones...sustain, dampen, looper, etc!
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Have you tried them with the drum patterns playing Jamie?
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time, i need to mess around with it more really. it is apart again. i ran out of components and money...i did find a cool tremolo bend with a 1k pot.
one downside i'm noticing on this keyboard is there are a lot of bends, but there is not a lot of variance...a switch works better than a potentiometer. i've tried a variety...1k. 1m, 100k, 500k....but there ar e a lot of hidden sounds! the sub octave is just nasty! lol