Circuitbenders Forum
Circuitbenders Forum => Circuitbending discussion => DIY Synths => Topic started by: Circuitbenders on February 11, 2008, 10:39:44 PM
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Just finished my Weird Sound Generator from Music From Outer Space
http://www.musicfromouterspace.com/analogsynth/YOUR_FIRST_SYNTH/WSG_Reborn/WEIRDSOUNDGENERATORREBORN.html
(http://img522.imageshack.us/img522/3604/wsgmt5.jpg)
You can buy the PCB from the site for $15 and its well worth the effort.
Heres a demo mp3 of mine with a bit of delay and reverb added. I haven't really mastered it yet so be carefull at the end as its a bit of a tweeter eater :D
http://www.circuitbenders.co.uk/demos/WSGdemo1.mp3
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;D yeah, Kluster is back!!!! www.youtube.com/watch?v=3lkHvcsZ_nM (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3lkHvcsZ_nM)
very cool stuff, I must have this thing, too. I've ordered it just in the moment :)
Nice little box you have build!
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wow that looks nice !
sound very simmilar to my realistic reverb (after bending)
pure happyness :D
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Yeah, using a printed board saves a bunch of time. I ended up using his artwork to etch my own, which turned out pretty decent. Here's a picture of the finsihed product posing with an Atari Punk Console:
(http://i125.photobucket.com/albums/p62/telephone1652/apcWSG.jpg)
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Also, I meant to ask, how do those knobs attatch? Do they have a screw, or are they the ones for the special knurled pots? The red box looks slick as all get-out.
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Did you use an HCF40106 or a CD40106? As far as i can tell they are more or less exactly the same chip but i have heard claims that the CD40106 gives more 'pure' sounding waveforms. Although this could be the same as guitarists suposedly being able to tell the difference in tone between completley identical valves.
Those knobs have grub screws (if thats the right phrase) that you tighten with a jewellers screwdriver. The box is in fact translucent dark red plastic so it looks like i'm going to have to find out how to wire in some LFO speed LED's and stick them inside.
It never occured to me that you could mount a circuit in a hollowed out book, nice job ;)
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Thanks. I build a lot of stuff in books these days.
For the WSG I used the CD40106. There's an electronic supply store in my town that has bins and bins of discontinued ICs, so I was able to nab a few for about a dollar each.
Not that I've heard the other version to compare it to, but I'd be willing to bet that a human's ear couldn't tell the difference between the two chips.
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Hey I just finally got all the parts for mine yesterday, and just now I found the case - happy happy joy! :D
About the IC: It's the heart of the oscillator, if they switch at different speeds (for example) that would change the shape of the waveform (which is a really unique one, there's a picture on Ray's site) which may or may not be noticeable...
On the soundlab electromusic.com forum they were saying that different transistors in the VCO sound different and to try different types to find your favourite. Talking of which: Did you guys use the 2N3904 or a replacement?
Building is the new bending!
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CD/HEF 40106 = 45106 = 4106 = 4584
The 4584 produce less noise because of faster hysteresis.
For the 2N3904 all small signal npn transistor can be used (BC548....)
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I used a 2N3904, as I had a handful in my parts cabinet.
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Also, question for Paul:
Do both of the voices on yours have the same volume, or is one clearly quieter as is the case with mine. I think I may have grounded the controls incorrectly.
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I really need to pull my finger out and build something cool. everything in this thread looks bloody brilliant.
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I used 2N3904's and an HEF40106 but i've just ordered a couple of CD40106's to see if it makes any difference. I did notice that mine sounds a lot more 'fizzy' than some of the demo's on the site and the electro-music forum but that could be down to the filter settings.
Do both of the voices on yours have the same volume, or is one clearly quieter as is the case with mine. I think I may have grounded the controls incorrectly.
The second voice is definately quieter on mine as well. I'm not entirely sure why that is as the schematics look exactly the same but the tuning is slightly different and how each voice reacts to the 'wacky freq' knob is slightly different as well.
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I'm waiting for the pcb hadn't build it yet. So the following is theory.
The volume difference between Voice A and Voice B results from component tolerances (resistors)
Those 1M resistors R21/R22 do the volume mixing (decrease for louder output of voice b).
A 1M resistor with 10% tolerance can have a resistance between 0.9 .. 1.1 M for example (+/- 100 kOhm !)
It is better to use "Metal film" resistors not those cheap "Carbon film" ones.
I'm very interested in the differences (if any) in sound between CMOS logic types CD/HEF 40106, 4584 ...
Even TTL logic 74xx14 can be used (but they need 5V power supply!)
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I have a HEF40106 that I was planning to use but there's a C40106 I ordered in the mail so I'll try both I guess.
I attempted to build the WSG on vero board last year and only ever got it to half work, I replaced a transistor with a different type and it sounded very different after that! Abandoned it but now there's a PCB! That should help...
If I find any major differences I'll post it..
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see http://www.robthefiddler.com/electronics-audio-diy/circuit-experiments/wsg-mods-for-a-sequencer-thingy/
for some explanation and mods for the WSG.
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well there is definately a big difference between using an HCF40106 and a 74C14N, which is the stated equivalent to the CD40106 on the MFOS website. The 74C14N is a lot more 'gritty' sounding and runs a bit slower.
I think i prefer the sound of the HCF40106 but i'm not 100% sure
I've made some demos of my WSG using the HCF40106 and the 74C14N with the controls in exactly the same place. Each demo has the HCF40106 first and the 74C14N second.
http://www.circuitbenders.co.uk/demos/WSGdifference1.mp3
http://www.circuitbenders.co.uk/demos/WSGdifference2.mp3
http://www.circuitbenders.co.uk/demos/WSGdifference3.mp3
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Jeez, that is a pretty dramatic difference.
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I think i prefer the sound of the HCF40106 but i'm not 100% sure
HCF is much nicer... but the other one is cool too.
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Hiya all, tis my first post so first off.. great forum here, good attitude and all!
had to post because I love the WSG, I have built two of them from the vero layout by Unkle Krunkus (anyone used that?) it sounds great to me (I used a cd40106). The LM 741 is a single op amp, has anyone tried any others in its place? I haven't yet but will do when I get hold of some :). I just checked this new PCB from the MFOS site and it has extra switches!! ;D Is there much difference to the original WSG? I'm hoping I can add these extra switches to my vero build ;D
fegg.
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yeah, got my MFOS pcb, got to get parts ...
I think I have to build it twice one with HCF4106 and one with the 74C14
... a must have :)
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Is there much difference to the original WSG?
I can't remember, does the original WSG have two voices? Cause that'd be a big difference.
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Yop, has two voices mixed together :)
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the original has mostly the same pots (only coarse "oddness" cutoff and no resonance) but minus all switches apart from "Wackiness" ;D ...I'll try and drop them in.
p.s. just realised my 2nd vero build had two resistors misplaced, but still made Noise ;D
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hey, the red box looks NICE! very professional!
i like the idea of the old camera. i have a bunch of those, actually.
i think, before i build a wsg, i may want to learn how to print circuitboards like the bigboys do. i mean, i might could fake it with a generic pcb, but a printed board would make life a lot easier.
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i think, before i build a wsg, i may want to learn how to print circuitboards like the bigboys do. i mean, i might could fake it with a generic pcb, but a printed board would make life a lot easier.
My advice is if you don't actually have to, then don't bother. If you can get a ready made board then you might as well go the easier route, although i'm sure just the PCB was a lot cheaper when i built mine.
I've never tried a WSG on stripboard but i've definately seen a layout for it somewhere on the net. Its not actually that complex component-wise. Most of the wiring is for the pots.
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yeah, i was checking the layout out, and nothing on it even resembles that of a strip board. i would have better results hand wiring everything than to do that! ;-)
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Boy, I hate to disagree with the man himself, but I found a PCB to be a great help when I made one of these. There are some great tutorials out there, and it's a skill that you'll use over and over. Check out Getlofi's videos on the subject and do a search for "Muriatic acid PCB".
Totally worth your time.
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i agree, what i was trying to say there was that its a whole lot more effort to make your own PCB than it is to just buy one if they are available, especially if you aren't that experienced at it. Plus you can more or less guarantee that a comercially produced one is going to work.
Having said that, i think it'd have to be something a little more complex than a WSG to make me actually make a PCB but as i say, i've never attempted one on veroboard
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i think from a learning standpoint, making a pcb may be bennificial. of course, i like the instant gratification standpoing too. :D ;D
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i wish i had not have seen this aim going to have too make another WSG with the 74C14N in it i really like the different sound it makes!
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i wish i could see more of a closer layout of the pcb of this thing...
i notice only about 2 pins on the cmos and 1 pin on the opamp are used. i know i have tons to learn, but it seems like a lot of chip to only use that many pins...lol! also, for some reason, the schmidt trigger data is much harder to follow than a 555 or 556! i just want to understand the logic of the pins...what is voltage in? what is output? etc. i just need some example layouts using these!
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40106 oscillators
http://www.fluxmonkey.com/electronoize/40106Oscillator.htm (http://www.fluxmonkey.com/electronoize/40106Oscillator.htm)
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some more 40106 stuff here triangle and square-wave outputs :o
http://www.eleccircuit.com/triangle-and-squarewave-generator-by-ic-40106/ (http://www.eleccircuit.com/triangle-and-squarewave-generator-by-ic-40106/)
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40106 oscillators are loads easier to make than 555 timer oscillators. Also each chip has the ability to make 6 individual oscillators. These can all cross modulate each other for loads of crazy wrongness.
Check out this dudes page for more info.
http://www.milkcrate.com.au/_other/sea-moss/ (http://www.milkcrate.com.au/_other/sea-moss/)
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does this mean i have the hard work behind me?! ::)
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THANK YOU for the "sea-moss" site! finally, one that explains it in layman's terms! so, each pin is a voltage in or v-out?!!
fun stuff!
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again, thank you for your help. i put a schmitt trigger on my breadboard, and basically started experimenting with different caps, resistors and a diode or two. i used a couple of 500k and a 100k pots, and i came up with a pretty cool sounding synth!
so, something else under my belt i have learned!
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Love the WSG. I've built 3 of the original versions. On the last one, I added inputs, as described here:
http://electro-music.com/forum/viewtopic.php?highlight=audio+wsg&t=33474 (http://electro-music.com/forum/viewtopic.php?highlight=audio+wsg&t=33474)
I think they're referring to the newer version, but its doable with the old one too.
Very easy and worth the extra parts.
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i am going to try to actually build my synth as a final product today. mine is similar to this wsg model, but, without the opamp. there are about a million sounds one can get from a hex schmitt trigger though!
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Am a new user of this forum so am appreciative of all the great ideas, tips and general friendliness!
Also am bit of a novice but am nearing completion of a WSG. Has anyone incorporated LEDs to sync with any of the functions? I am imagining the effect......
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Has anyone incorporated LEDs to sync with any of the functions? I am imagining the effect......
Just poke around with some. I'm certain you'll be able to find something worthwhile. Try putting them across the pots.
WSGs are pretty hearty, so you don't really run much risk, based on my experience.
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For anyone starting synth DIY experiments with this wonderful little circuit by Ray Wilson, there are set of additional mods you can do to it by Scott Stites, up to the point of getting some voice-like (formant) synthesis. Sounds samples are also available on Scott's site:
http://www.birthofasynth.com/Scott_Stites/Pages/wsg_looney.html (http://www.birthofasynth.com/Scott_Stites/Pages/wsg_looney.html)
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For anyone starting synth DIY experiments with this wonderful little circuit by Ray Wilson, there are set of additional mods you can do to it by Scott Stites, up to the point of getting some voice-like (formant) synthesis. Sounds samples are also available on Scott's site:
http://www.birthofasynth.com/Scott_Stites/Pages/wsg_looney.html (http://www.birthofasynth.com/Scott_Stites/Pages/wsg_looney.html)
Thanks very much for this - looks like some really useful stuff
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Has anyone incorporated LEDs to sync with any of the functions? I am imagining the effect......
Just poke around with some. I'm certain you'll be able to find something worthwhile. Try putting them across the pots.
WSGs are pretty hearty, so you don't really run much risk, based on my experience.
Thanks for that tip - as a novice, I have been perhaps over-cautious!
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Just finished my Weird Sound Generator from Music From Outer Space
http://www.musicfromouterspace.com/analogsynth/YOUR_FIRST_SYNTH/WSG_Reborn/WEIRDSOUNDGENERATORREBORN.html
(http://img522.imageshack.us/img522/3604/wsgmt5.jpg)
You can buy the PCB from the site for $15 and its well worth the effort.
There is something I don’t get. To connect both voices at the point called »ODD« in the schematics do you have to insert a wire bridge (on the pcb right from the filter)?